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Rough collies in smooth litters: what about documents

Natalain: I`m interesting in it... when in smooth litter you get rough puppies, what about documents for them? As I understan in USA, Australia, Canada you can have documents for puppies as rough collies. In Sweden - too. In Finland they will be registered as smooth. What about rules in other countries for such situation?

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Dianne: The situation in France is very unsure. My Black recently sired a litter in which there were quite a number of rough puppies. The breeder was allowed to register the puppies as rough. There has been debate as to whether these puppies are "confirmable"

Jack Mack: If the confirmation is done by just evaluating the dog that is presented without taking a look at his papers then it should be ok if the dog looks like a rough collie. But........if the judge knows what parents this dog has, will he be free from prejudice? How is the procedere of confirmation in France?

Lisa: I've already written to you but maybe others will be interested too, so that's how it works in Austria: Rough pups from Smooth litters will be registered with a COK (smooth) Number in the stud book, but it will say on their pedigree that they are Rough collies. They can be shown and bred as Rough Collies with the same rules as a regular Rough and without any limitations. So the only thing that makes them different from "real" Roughs is the different stud book number (COK instead of COL).

Lisa: sorry, that was a double post....

Jack Mack: Thank you Lisa, I hope that we can get something on the way that will possibly influence more kennel clubs to overthink their routine....

Alertness: I like the Austrian registration rules regarding roughs from smooth parents! I wish we had something like that in Norway too. Here roughs from smooth parents have to be registered as smooths and can only be used in smooth breeding. Berit

Lisa: Berit, so you can mate a rough from smooth parents with a smooth?

Alertness: Yes, in reality you can mate a rough from smooth parents with a smooth. Because according to its papers it's a smooth collie . The Collie Club in Norway initially wanted these roughs from smooth parents to be registered with a breeding ban but according to FCI rules it is not allowed to put an automatic breeding ban on a healthy animal! So in Norway the registration rules effectively prevent these roughs to be used for rough breeding but anyone can use them on smooths. Weird Berit

Lisa: That must be very interesting for Gudrun Hartmann! If the FCI permits a breeding ban for healthy animals, it would not be posible to ban a rough from smooth litters just because it is a rough... there would have to be a health issue then or a severe fault in appearance?

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