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Jack Mack: I do not know if this is the right place for this but it concerns very much breeding of all Collies and Shetland Sheepdogs in my country. VDH in Germany has now banned any breedings that can produce MDR1 affected puppies.
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myrnash: I was sho0cked to hear of this decision. MDR1 is not a disease, it is only important for us to know the status of the dog so that we can be careful about using certain drugs with sensitive dogs. I do test all my dogs (not easy, we don't have a lab here, I have to send the tests to Australia), because I want to know what the status of my dogs is. We do have a parasite common in some parts of the country here which is treated with ivermectin based products, so I want to know when I sell a puppy to be able to inform the new owner if they need to be careful anjd not to use these proiducts. The statistics seem right, this is also what I have been getting more or less in my breeding - about one quarter are +/+. But I certainly will not eliminate an otherwise excellent dog from breeding because he is -/-, I will just consider this when making breeding decisions. It is a big mistake to limit the gene pool so much for something that is a controllable problem. Whatever is the VDH thinking!
Jack Mack: @Myrna What is the VDH thinking? Important breeds for the VDH are German Shepherds, Teckels, Doberman, Rottweiler and so on - they would never dare to put any bans on breeders of those breeds But VDH is also very aware of a loss of integrity if they do not follow public demands. And the biggest problem with MDR1 in Germany was, that all the collie foren were full with it, warning puppy buyers not to buy MDR1 affected puppies.
cris: myrnash wrote: We do have a parasite common in some parts of the country here which is treated with ivermectin based products, so I want to know when I sell a puppy to be able to inform the new owner if they need to be careful anjd not to use these proiducts. Do you mean Filaria worm? We also have this problem!
myrnash: Yes, it is a big problem here, fortunately not in my part of the country. But the vets here routinely give the dogs a monthly treatment with an ivermectin based product as a preventative, which is of course very dangerous to dogs that are MDR1-/-.
cris: It's the same, here! I give monthly "Interceptor" to my dogs in summer season against heartworms: it's not ivermectin, but "milbemicin", they say it's safe for MDR1-/- dogs. I hope so!
Nelson: Hi, about Filaria worms - here we use against it Advocate or Stronghold. Both have inside Moxidectin or Selamectin, what is too on list of dangerous drugs, but producer told me, that this type of treatment (put on skin spot on for a right weight of dog) should not caused any problems.
Jack Mack: Well said Avery - and welcome to the forum !
Alertness: An interesting, professional viewpoint in the MDR1 discussion: http://www.sharonvanderlip.com/pdfs/Response_mdr1Article.pdf Berit
Spiritwind: Thanks for the link. I read the article. Does anyone have a link to view the original Round Up article?? I'm be interested in reading that, if anyone knows where I could find it.
Glenmorangie: Thank you very much, Alertness I remember Sharon Vanderlip writing an article in an old International Collie Handbook (1984, I think) about Collies encounting problems with certain drugs, ivermectin in particular. At this time, nobody knows exactly what disease was in cause but she suspected a weakness in the blood brain barrier. She also reported a correspondence with Maria-Teresa Garabelli (di Cambiano Rough Collies, Italy) who had severe problems with some of her dogs. Years later (1989) a small English kennel (Coppi Rough Collies) reported in the ICH she had severe problems with ivermectin, two of her bitches died between 7 and 14 days of sufferings. A third was a bit affected but survive after an appropriate treatment without apparent consequences and the fourth was quite resistant. The year after, the same breeder reported that the third collie who survived apparently normal gave birth to a litter with eyes problems then this bitch never produced any affected puppy before. Twenty years passed away between the first commerce of ivermectin and the discorery of the genetic origin of this disease. Because the genetic researches were at an "embryo" state, researches and discovery took lot of time. But once the mutant gene was discovered, "only" two years were needed to make and to perfect a DNA test and to establish a list of dangerous medications. Thus, this test exist only since 2003. And only six years after, an administration decides to ban any mating producing MDR1 affected puppies. That's quite madness in such a short interval of time. The results on the concerned breeds will quickly be catastrophic. What about the FCI Standard ? What about the other health issues ? What about the genetic diversity ? Who will be able to stand for years such a costly breeding program ? Who will be able to pay a fortune for a Collie or Sheltie puppy in the next future ? Other questions welcome.... That said, as far as I know it seems to me that the German breeders themselves have generated this accelerated decision by anticipation for four years at least in litterally kidnapping the very few MDR1 +/+ Collies puppies or adults from few countries (from France in example where the Smooth pool is justly really quite microscopic ) In addition, these imports are from the same families most of the time (obviously, I don't speak about US imports !!) thus the gene pool is still more reduced. In the Collie breed, this problem is considerably increased by the prohibition of crossing roughs x smooths. If these crossings were allowed, if the roughs from smooths where really recognised as roughs, if a real testing program was established, it is obvious that the MDR1 issue (as well as CEA) would be classified in a reasonable future of fifteen-twenty years, without loss of any bit of gene pool, on the contrary. But if....... "IF Cleopatra had had a longer nose, this would have changed the face of the world" (French proverb). Best regards, Françoise
Jack Mack: Berit, thank you for the article! Everybody seems to think that we (breeders that take the MDR1 defect seriously into consideration in their breeding program) do not take all other health issues and genetic diversity as serious as the MDR1 defect....... As for me I am about to be at the end of the "flag pole", I have spent too much time and money (first of all to import new material to enlarge our gene pool, only secondary to look for non-carriers for the MDR1 gene) to go an like that. Francoise, you are right, there have been too many imports from the same families into Germany and I have to keep away from them although they would be the only MDR1 non-carriers not related to mine...... You all can believe me, it is very hard to produce good dogs that are non-carriers both for the MDR1 and CEA genes and keep all other health issues in mind. I am since long waiting for a tricolor female puppy that fulfills all my wishes. Both litters I have now only the males are non-carriers for the MDR1 gene, all girls are carriers I am lucky to find show and breeding homes to take the males in but for me there is no forthcoming........ I have a very nice blue-merle bitch puppy (MDR1 +/-, CEA non-carrier) here and I know, I have to fly to America again......time enough to save money and hopefully the male will still be available then A sometimes quite desperate Gudrun
Glenmorangie: Hello Spiritwind Good question !!! That is exactly this one I wondered when I was reading Sharon's article this night. Perhaps contacting Sharon Vanderlip herself would help to get this Round Up (Monsanto ???? ) article ? I tried searching this article on the Internet but the term of "Round up" is so many times used for any things I did not find the interesting one Best regards, Françosie
Tentola: The "Round up" used to be produced by The West of England Collie Society. Nick
Glenmorangie: This is why I did not find it. Thank you very much, Nick Best wishes, Françoise
Jack Mack: Maybe this is of interest: http://www.collienet.com/breed%20club%20pageheadings/EACA/health%20coordination.htm and this is the e-mail of the West of England Collie Society: email@example.com
Jack Mack: Yesterday VDH retreated from the ban of producing MDR1 -/- puppies in the breeds of rough and smooth collies and shetland sheepdogs. There will have to be a program to reduce the defect in apropriate time. Will be back with more news Gudrun
Alertness: Thanks for bringing the news Gudrun! Berit
Nelson: Jack Mack Great new! Thank you for it!
Jack Mack: Genomia lab in CZ offers now a combined test for CEA and MDR1 to an attractive price! Go to www.genomia.cz One blood sample or one swab sample is enough for both tests. Both results are usually in one week. CEA + MDR1 test 112,5 Euro !!!
MARGARET: http://www.collienet.com/health%20topics/MDR1%20Gene%20defect.htm On this page you will see Sharon Vanderlip's response to th article you were discussing on MDR1
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